Having been active as a consumer group for over two years, we think that we are now learning the right lessons. Basically, we are educational in our approach. We gather information, which we think our members, will find helpful and useful, about goods and services in the Croydon area. We want our members to benefit from other members’ experiences, so that they can avoid problems. Prevention is better than cure. We specialise in prevention. We can advise our members where to go for a cure, but righting wrongs is not our function. Our function is to inform both of the good things and bad things that can happen, in the hope that the Information will be useful to consumers.
To be effective, we need a strong and active membership. This means we need new members. Lots of them. We need people who are interested in consumer affairs to participate in our activities, particularly people who have advice to offer from first hand experience. That probably means most people. This does not need to take up much time. Even details of a single experience could be of help to members. If you have friends or acquaintances that may be interested, please recommend us. We need their assistance.
Cheaper prices hopefully, if you take the trouble to compare, or have access to comparisons. To assist you to decide, and to help you avoid making the wrong choice, Croydon Trading Standards Service have prepared an electricity leaflet pack, which is available from Taberner House Reception, or can be obtained by phoning 0208 407 1310. The pack has been prepared as a result of the confusion and concern, which resulted from the Gas Deregulation.
Alternatively, you can contact the independent electricity regulator, OFFER, on freephone 0800 451 451, which explains most of what you need to know.
When gas was deregulated, a Fact Sheet was produced by the CDCG for members to enable them to compare the prices on offer by the various gas suppliers and to provide advice on some of the factors to be considered when making up your mind. We hope you found this Fact Sheet useful. We have received two reports from executive members giving their experience on changing gas suppliers, which you will find elsewhere in this Newsletter.
If you change your electricity or gas supplier, please let us have any information, which you think might be interesting to other consumers in the Croydon area.
Did you know that Croydon Council Environmental Health & Trading Standards Department monitors air quality at several places in the borough and has a telephone hot line (0800 317 947) to let people know the results?
The Department also licenses many premises and activities from acupuncture to scrap metal dealers. These services are in addition to the more familiar areas of Food Safety inspections and dealing with complaints about noise.
If you would like to know more about the wide range of services the Department offers you can call them on 0208 760 5714 for a brochure full of up to date information. It is a good reference book to have available.
Two members of the CDCG committee decided to transfer to new gas providers this year. Here are their findings.
Maura, at her own request, transferred from Gas to Beacon. She found transition easy. Beacon read the meter, although a few days later than arranged, and BG were notified of the details.
A final statement arrived from BG within a matter of weeks and she was informed that an overpayment would be transferred to her bank account. Maura commented that both suppliers provided a very efficient service, and she awaits her first statement from Beacon, hoping all will continue to go well.
Ruth writes that she responded to a cold house call by an Eastern Gas representative last Autumn, who quoted figures and pointed to newspaper coverage of Eastern Gas’s successes. She decided to transfer and signed the forms.
Hearing nothing for months, and as the date in May was drawing neat Ruth rang the Eastern Gas Helpline. The call was answered after seven minutes, when she was informed that due to the magnitude of the response the transfer date had been postponed. Meanwhile, she need do nothing, as Eastern Gas would make all the arrangements with British Gas to transfer her supply.
In June Eastern Gas wrote to say that the transfer date would be mid July. The meter was read on the 10th July, and two or three weeks thereafter Ruth received a letter from BG expressing the Company’s regret at her decision to transfer her supply to another supplier and they hoped to regain her custom in the future.
The closing statement of account showed a substantial credit (from monthly direct debits) but no indication of when it would be paid. On enquiry, Ruth was informed that she should receive a cheque within one month. In fact, a cheque arrived after 10 days, since when she has heard nothing from either company.
We hope to keep you informed of future developments. Meanwhile, please let us have your experiences.
One of our members ordered some double glazed windows from Weatherseal Holdings Ltd in the early part of last year. It was a condition of the order that the work would have 10 year insurance backed guarantee. This was written onto the Purchase Contract with a named person’s authorisation.
On completion of the work the 10 year insurance backed guarantee was requested. After many Telephone calls and several letters, an incomplete Weatherseal Holdings Ltd 10 year guarantee was received, which contained mainly exclusion clauses. A further request was made for an insurance backed guarantee which covered all the work undertaken. Another Weatherseal Guarantee returned covering all the work undertaken, but not insurance backed.
In June this year a further request was made for a 10 year insurance backed guarantee, enclosing a photocopy of the Purchase Contract onto which the 10 year Insurance Backed Guarantee condition is clearly stated. In reply Weatherseal’s Customer Services Manager wrote: -
"With regards to the statement written on your Purchase Contract regarding a Ten Year Insurance Backed Guarantee, we must refer you to our ‘Condition of Contract and Guarantee’ (copy attached), and in particular to Clause two, which reads as follows;
The Contract and the Conditions of Contract incorporate all the terms of the Contract and no representation, warranties, statements of undertakings whether oral or in writing shall form part of the Contract and no purported variations of these conditions, shall have any legal effect unless they shall be in writing and signed by a Director of the Company and attached hereto. In light of the above clause, we are unable to help you further.
Assuring you of our best attention at all times".
It was pointed out to Weatherseal their second Clause meant that their employees could say or write what they wanted in order to get the business, and that the Company could refuse to recognise what had been agreed. In other words the Clause was unfair.
Weatherseal were informed that the Office of Fair Trading was being contacted, and they replied they would await further correspondence.
The Office of Fair Trading sent our member three brochures containing a total of 150 pages of interesting information, much of which covered advice on Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations. However, the Office has no power to intervene in individual disputes, although the Director General has the power to ask the courts to stop traders using unfair terms.
The Office of Fair Trading has been sent information regarding this matter and we await their response. We also intend to send the details of this case to Croydon Trading Standards Service seeking advice.
We will keep you informed on the case. (See below!)
** The following letter was received by the NCF Web administrator on 23 December 2002 and is added to clarify the current position:
23rd December 2002
Dear Sirs
We write further to the above
statement posted on your Website in 1998, regarding our Company’s Terms and
Conditions.
Since 1998, Weatherseal Holdings
Limited have modified and amended their Terms and Conditions on the reverse side
of the Purchase Contract and the Terms and Conditions comply with current
trading practices and have done so for some years.
Therefore, we believe that the
displaying of this statement on your Website is both unjust and unreasonable
(since it relates to 1998) and may cause adverse publicity and criticism against
Weatherseal Holdings Limited.
We therefore, respectfully,
request that you remove this statement with immediate effect.
We look forward to your response
which should be e-mailed to walker.s@weatherseal.co.uk,
at your earliest convenience.
We thank you in advance for your co-operation in this matter.
Yours faithfully
LEGAL DEPARTMENT ON BEHALF OF WEATHERSEAL HOLDINGS LIMITED
Most consumers encounter problems of overcharging and underperformance at some time or other. Many people accept this simply as bad experiences which are difficult to deal with, or they just can not be bothered to take the trouble to pursue the matter. This need not be the case. If you think you are being overcharged, or the standard of workmanship is unacceptable, hold some money back until the price has been reduced or justified, or the job has been improved to a satisfactory standard. Remember, once payment has been made, the supplier has most of the advantages.
However, there are a number of courses open to a disgruntled consumer, probably the least effective in most cases is to write to the supplier’s trade association, if he happens to be a member of an association. Alternatively, he can approach Croydon Trading Standard Service, who deals with more than 7,000 consumer problems a year, for assistance and advice.
If the damage, or the cost to rectify the damage, is substantial the consumer might be advised to consult a solicitor. If it is less than £3,000, he may find it worthwhile to approach the small claims court.
Solicitors can be expensive if they decide to take on a case, although a good firm will advise whether a claim is worth pursuing. You might have heard of the American ‘no-win, no-fee’ legal cost system, which was introduced over here two or three years ago. This, however, is at present only relevant In connection with compensation for Injury claims. We understand that the system is to be extended next year to cover most kinds of claim, which could give consumers confidence if a solicitor takes on their case.
The small claims courts will provide you with the information to guide you through the procedures for making a claim. A relatively small fee is charged, and the matter is often settled by arbitration.
The main discouragement to pursuing the redress of a grievance, or making a claim, is that a lot, of time and effort is involved.
To increase ones chance of success in the event of a dispute, one should always ensure that a record is kept of all the relevant details of the work involved. This means keeping notes of whatever was agreed, retaining copies of all correspondence, the dates, names, times, and details of any conversations, telephonic of direct. Any payments made should be acknowledged and the receipts safely kept. If workmanship is bad, take photographs. much more’ powerful than descriptions.
If you are dealing with unscrupulous people, then you have more of a problem on your hands. They are used to trouble and it doesn’t worry them. That is why it is important to obtain recommendations or to deal with reputable firms, (who can also sometimes be less reliable than they seem).
Remember, it is always worth the trouble to register a complaint, it is not always worth the trouble to pursue it. This is something that everybody must decide themselves. Principles can be expensive. It may be better to cut your losses and write the situation off as a bad experience. The time, aggravation, and cost involved can be a major deterrent.
One of our members discovered that the recently wooden flooring in his loft was wet. He immediately contacted his insurers who sent round a plumber. The plumber reported that there was nothing wrong with the plumbing, and that he would arrange for a roof contractor to investigate the cause of the dampness. After several telephone calls and several weeks a contractor called. He inspected the loft and reported that there was nothing wrong with the plumbing and that in his opinion there was a roofing problem, which he was not equipped to deal with, and that he would arrange for a roofing contractor to inspect the roof.
After several more telephone calls and weeks a roofing contractor visited the premises. He went up to the loft, then inspected the roof from garden level and informed our member that the problem was caused by worn and defective old concrete tiles which were letting in water and would need to be replaced. The work was not covered under the terms of the insurance.
Our member assumed that that was the end of the matter as far as his Insurance company was concerned so he called in a building surveyor who inspected the loft and the roof at both roof level and ground level. The building surveyor disagreed with the roof contractor about the tiles and suggested that our member called in any ordinary roofer. A roofer was recommended, contacted, came around, replaced a few tiles, patched a split in the gully. He was there for an hour and a quarter. He then informed our member that the roof was in good condition.
Subsequently the insurance company phoned to say that they had heard from their contractor that the cost of repairs to the roof would be £11,400.
There is a lot more to the story, but the point is that for big jobs one must always get a second opinion, estimate, or quotation. It can be a lot of trouble but it’s your money at stake and quite a lot of it on occasions.
A co-ordinator with St Edmund’s informed the Group that one of their clients being charged £412.42 by a maintenance service company for unblocking a toilet. Subsequent quotes from two other firms suggested the cost should have been less than £100. After payment has been made in this kind of situation, it is difficult to obtain a refund.
That is why it is so important to obtain several quotations or estimates before work is commenced. We realise that in an emergency this is not always possible, although one should always get an estimate, or an understanding of the basis on which charges will be made. Dishonest tradesmen are experienced at putting their clients at a disadvantage. It is a question of making it more difficult for them to do so.
If you think you are being I overcharged, you might consider withholding part of the payment until you are satisfied that the charges can be justified.
Coincidentally, two of our members have had trouble with repairs and key replacement to their double glazing windows and doors. On making numerous enquiries, independently, they were informed to contact their original supplier. In neither case was this possible, as they did not know who the original suppliers were.
We contacted Croydon Police Crime Prevention Unit, and the Glass and Glazing Federation, on behalf of one member. In the former case a locksmith was suggested, and in the latter case the GGF advised her to contact the solicitors who had prepared the legal work associated with the purchase of the house. Neither suggestion was successful.
Our other member was able to solve the problem herself, and to provide the first member with the name, address, and telephone number of the locksmith concerned.
This year there are 12 award winners to stallholders in Surrey Street Market.
The awards are made by Croydon Councils Trading Standards Service on the basis of accurate weight, dear pricing, hygiene, quality of goods, and licence conditions being met.
Stall number, name of stallholder, and type of goods, are specified in the winner’s list and each winner has received a certificate and a plaque to display on their stalls. In theory one should know what to look for, but the problem is that many stalls do not display their number and name, or the information is not easily visible. Perhaps if the display requirements were standardised it would make choice easier for the discriminating shopper.
One of our members has drawn our attention to the difference in structural insurance costs between Freeholders and Leaseholders on the Forestdale Estate. As a Freeholder the annual premium cost of structural insurance on a 3-story house is in the region of £150 per year. Leaseholders of flats on the Estate are charged by the Freeholder £249.35 per annum. Of course, the insurance cover might be different, although our member states that she obtained quotations from two well known insurance companies for similar cover for the flats, both of which quoted in the region of £80 per annum.
Our member suggests that if you are insured by your landlord you should consider obtaining competitive quotations for comparable independently. You might save yourself a lot of money.
We would like to hear from you if you have any Information or experience on this matter.
Continuing our series of Committee Profiles:
Morris Graham, MA, took his degree in politics, philosophy, and economics, and later obtained a BA in computer studies from the Open University. He started his career as an organisation and methods consultant to local government, and later went into travel and tourism where he held executive positions on the boards
of several tour operating companies. He has been a member of The Consumers Association for 11 years and was a founder member of The Croydon and District Consumer Group. He also sits on the Membership and Development Committee of the National Federation of Consumer Groups (NfCG).
Although not a member of the committee, Sandra has worked closely with the Group, from its initiation. Sandra has worked with consumers within the Trading Standards Service since leaving school. Her present Job is to advise consumers and traders on their rights when buying and selling goods and services. Also arranging and giving presentations to groups of Croydon residents. The job also involves her in consumer education, especially in Croydon schools and colleges, she organises a local competition, Young Consumers of the Year.
Croydon Trading Standards Service is to compile a list of recommended Croydon builders and tradesmen. We applaud this endeavour, as it is something we have been campaigning for since we were first established in 1996.
The minimum standards set for inclusion in the list are rigorous but reasonable and should offer the level of service that people are entitled to expect when employing tradesmen. Most Important, if there are problems that can’t be solved directly, they can be referred to the Customer Service Team at Croydon Trading Standards Department.
The Group has been informed that The Builders’ Charter list will be available in the New Year.
There is genuine concern that our public transportation system fails the disabled and disadvantaged. Whilst representing the CDCG on the Telewest consumer programme, ‘Talking Point’, your Editor was questioned about what he considered should be done to improve the situation.
The matter was raised as the programme editor had received a number of complaints from viewers on this issue. Not only was it extremely difficult for the disabled to utilise public transport, but it seems as though very little sympathy or assistance was extended by at least some employees and members of the public.
At a time when the Government is anxious to encourage more disabled people to find employment, both to save the taxpayer money, and to give them a higher stake in society, this issue requires more thought than can be provided spontaneously.
Whether publicly or privately owned, the modification to facilities and transportation equipment would have to be paid for. As a civilised community this is a price that needs to be met. The question is how the transportation needs of the disabled can be catered for efficiently? This does not mean that every piece of equipment would need to be modified.
What is needed is a plan, which meets the requirements of the disabled and disadvantaged immediately. As a result of the Disability Discrimination Act, new trains and trams introduced next year will have to accommodate wheel chairs. Would it not be more sensible to set up skeleton schedules for the disabled for all transportation services? This is still business for the transportation companies, however it is financed.
Although every effort has been made to ensure the accuracy of the articles contained in this newsletter, no liability can be accepted to inadvertent errors. The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect the views of the Croydon & District Consumer Group.